I have added the HarappaWorld Admixture results for HRP0284-HRP0288 to the individual spreadsheet.
Do note that the admixture components do not necessarily represent real ancestral populations. Also, the names I have chosen for the components should be thought of as mnemonics to ease discussion. I chose them based on which populations in my data these components peaked in. They do not tell anything directly about ancestral populations. The best way to look at these admixture results is by comparing individuals and populations. Finally, the standard error estimates on these results can be about 1%. Therefore, it is entirely possible that your 1% exotic admixture result is just noise.
I have also updated the group averages (weighted) spreadsheet.
HRP0286 has really interesting results. Could genetic drift account for the differences between HRP0286 and HRP0281? Does any individual Pashtun sample from the HGDP dataset have similar results?
HRP0286 is a pashtun and look how different his number are from south asians, pashtuns are a group 60 very large tribes, if all those tribes are tested some how, you will see how diverse pashtuns are, this diversity is clearly reflected in their facial features as well. One thing for sure is that all pashtuns seem to have a very Caucasian component, this clearly differs them from the NW south asian populations. Pashtun are a west asian race, not a south asian one
We've seen that the Pashtuns are made up of many Y Haplogroups with R1a being the most dominant. However, it would seem like that you're more interested in phenotype. That my friend is a very different topic altogether.
It's more likely due to genetic drift or some other logical historical explanation. His results are very different than the other Pashtuns including the individual Afghan one i.e. HRP0281.
It's important to note that none of the other Pashtuns have anywhere near 25% of the Caucasus component. They are around 16% on average including the other individual Afghan Pashtun. That is around 6-7% higher than Northwestern South Asians who are around 9-11%. Also, it's quite ridiculous to be assigning autosomal ancestry to facial features. Finally, Pashtuns are South-Central Asian and not West Asian.
It may be due to recent admixture. Reich had to throw out a number of Pashtun and Sindhi samples as they were showing recent outlying ancestry:
"We identified 2 Pakistani groups (Pathan and Sindhi) as fully consistent with the Indian cline within the limits of our resolution. After removing 7 Pathan and 14 Sindhi samples with evidence of outlying ancestry (mostly West African related) that appears to be due to mixture in the last handful of generations, we added these 2 groups to the 16 Indian groups."
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v461/n7263/extref/nature08365-s1.pdf
The fact of the matter is all the pastun samples 23 of them are from the same area, these samples only represent a small part of pakistani pashtuns and certinatlly not all the 60 + tribes, this one individual clearly shows that there is diversity among pashtuns waiting to be discovered.
also the fact is that (punjabis) have been tested from all over and different groups, yet for pashtuns only these 23 samples from one area are being used to represent all of them, this is just plain wrong and doesn't speak the truth about their diverse dna
What would your explanation be for the similarity between them and the other individual Afghan Pashtun and Pakistani Pashtun who are not from the same area?
Kashmiris and pakistani punjabis also have higher Caucasus component compared to indian punjabis and other indian ethnicities. For one pakistani punjabi from lahore it is also 16% which is same as found in pashtuns, on kashmiri participant HRP021 also has 14% Caucasus component. On average it is between 11-16% among kashmiris and pakistani punjabis in harrappa participant database.
I have seen the picture of this HRP0286 on anthropology forum where he described that his family eventhough pashtuns speak Dari persian as their mother tongue, from his picture he looke heavily mixed with tajik and uzbeks, mongoloid features were pretty apparent on his face. Since he is persian speaking pashtuns, that may explain his divergent results from standard pakistani and afghan pashto speaking pashtuns. He also described in that forum that his family belongs to royal pashtun tribe and it is not uncommon for royal pashtun tribes to have mixing with tajiks especially in Kabul, Herat and northern afghanistan.
I dont think he is same guy, this guy hardly has any east asian in him. He maybe afghani pashtun, this may indicate why he is more west asian than pakistani pashtuns, but generally speaking Pashtuns are 15-20 ASI, depending on their location. Their Caucasian may range any where from 17-25%
He himself posted his results on zetaboards forum, and I saw his pictures which he posted there for anthropolgy classification, he himself said that he has been mistaken as uzbek, tajik etc. But he definitely looked more similar to afghan tajiks as compared to afghan pashtuns for example from paktia, khost etc.
I wonder if any individual Pashtun sample in the HGDP dataset has similar results. If yes, than one is probably dealing with the kind of variation one expects of huge populations. If not, this could indicate substantial genetic structure within the Pashtun region.
^ yes they do I checked, in fact there were quiet a few samples that were below 15% south asian, the lowest was 11%. Harrapa has only used pashtuns with over 20% ASI, this is why they are showing 23% ASI here, the original HGDP Reich set had pashtuns listed at 19-20% ASI average which is more accurate. In fact there were 2-3 pashtuns who were over 25% ASI, which in my opinion is dragging their average to near 19-20%. If you take out these 2-3 indviduals, the average of pashtun becomes around 17% ASI
@amber aka Ajay aka pakistani
Why don't you post the source for your claims then instead of making unfounded claims? Also, it's not the South Asian component but South Indian. Harappa Ancestry Project used the HGDP Pashtun samples which had 20%+ of the South Indian component (note that South Indian does not equal ASI) and that was 18/23 Pashtuns and 21/23 of the Kalash. As far as I know, you're just assuming some had less than 15% South Indian. Unless you have a source, there is no reason to assume any of them were much less than the other Pashtuns in terms of their South Indian component or ASI percentage which are both different things. The 18/23 Pashtun samples used by Zack in his estimates were 22.9% ASI. Your blatant exaggerations and unfounded claims led you to an imaginary 17% number.
https://docs.google.com/a/scu.edu/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuW3R0Ys-P4HdFN6QlFNUWJYZVl4YmZUU3BIQ0NBeFE#gid=0
In addition, HRP0282 is partially right in his argument that the South Indian component is not pure ASI. It is predominately ASI and partially ANI. ASI is about equidistant from the West Eurasian and East Eurasian components but leans toward the East Eurasian. That's why it is roughly in between those two despite not being very close to either. This also explains why a small amount of the ASI being calculated is hypothetically East Eurasian even though that is just a guess.
How did you check out the individual results for the HGDP samples?
You would need access to the raw data from HGDP. Zack calculated individual ASI estimates for 18/23 Pashtuns who had 20% + of the South Indian component but he never mentioned their individual South Indian estimates to my knowledge.
Here is the spreadsheet for the individual Pashtun samples from HGDP. Remember, this is only for 18/23 Pashtuns. The other 5 would have somewhat less than the lowest Pashtun on here but likely not by much.
The Pashtun on the spreadsheet with the lowest ASI percentage is HGDP00213 with 18.76%. After him, HGDP00224 at 19.26%. So the lowest out of the 18/23 calculated are approximately 19% ASI.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuW3R0Ys-P4HdFN6QlFNUWJYZVl4YmZUU3BIQ0NBeFE#gid=1
Also, the Harappa "South Indian" component is far from pure "ASI". It's two closest components are West Eurasian, and it is roughly equidistant to the Northeastern Asian and Euro components. Although I don't have the computational skill to examine this, I'd guess the component is 60% West Eurasian-40% East Eurasian.
I was wondering if Zack could look at the individual HGDP Pashtun results, and tell us if anyone has about the same/less South Indian as HRP0286.
"...the South Indian component is not pure ASI. It is predominately ASI and partially ANI. ASI is about equidistant from the West Eurasian and East Eurasian components but leans toward the East Eurasian. That's why it is roughly in between those two despite not being very close to either. This also explains why a small amount of the ASI being calculated is hypothetically East Eurasian even though that is just a guess."
The Fsts between the components seem to contradict this. "South Indian" clearly leans towards some of the West Eurasian components. Supposedly, whatever population that gave South Asian's ASI ancestry was highly differentiated from West Eurasians, and not roughly equidistant to West and East Eurasians (although this group was very distant to both).
My apologies. I meant to say ASI is roughly equidistant between the two but leans slightly toward the East Eurasian component despite not being close to either. The reason the South Indian component leans toward the West Eurasian component in terms of fst distance is that it is partially ANI in nature like I already mentioned.
There is defiantly a difference in generic pashtuns and generic punjabis, both in looks and genetics, however along the border areas of these two people, there are many similarities. For example I am from Dera Ghazi Khan, I am not punjabi but Sariaki, our people defiantly have some resemblance to pashtuns, because we are so close to them geographically, just west of our city is Dera Ismail Khan which is a Pashtun/Pathan city. Is there any genetic research on Sariaki people? I am assuming will be some where around 25-27% ANI, considering our location in Pakistan.
I meant 25-27 ASI
I just want to say that looking over my family tree, we don't have any foreign admixture.
I do probably look more like a Tajik than a Pashtun but the same can be said for many members of my family.
I can see that there is element in our tribe that sometimes makes people mistake us for foreigners.
Do more testing on the Durrani tribe and we might find something interesting.
Thanks for the clarification. Any 'traditions' of an Arabian descent. A number of Pakhtun families have such traditions.
While it is true that Tajiks today speak a form of Farsi, the Tajik region got its name due the Arabs since Indians, Persians and Chinese called the ArabsTajik.
Eg. taozyaka danheush aiwishtara, tajika jyotish
The Arab invasion and occupation of the region of modern Tajikstan gave that region that name as the Chinese called Arabs Ta-shih/Da-shih. http://books.google.com/books?id=SAqgAb41ifIC&pg=PA48
http://books.google.com/books?id=Pl9QnrfoYS8C&pg=PT53
There is no Arab on our family tree nor is there a tradition of Arab descent.
The only foreign descent possibilities are a possible Jengizid ancestor , or a Scythian ancestor named "Sarban"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarban
Tajiks were once called Sogdians, Tajik is a recent name as far as I know.
We have always been Pashto & Dari dual-language speakers; even when we were living in Kandahar province. However , we just speak Dari now because Pashto is not so useful for the new generation.
Hi there HRP0286! In regards to Durrani Pashtuns, I was under the impression that tribes of the Durrani confederacy have very deep cultural ties with Tajiks. In fact, the cultural overlap is supposedly more substantial between Durrani tribesmen and Tajiks than between Durrani tribesmen and Ghilzai tribesmen. Perhaps that explains the genetic differences. Durrani Pashtuns will probably have far less South Asian ancestry, and more West and East Asian ancestry, in comparison to Ghilzai Pashtuns. If HRP0281 is a Ghilzai Pashtun, this would seem to be the most parsimonious explanation (if HRP0281 is Durrani, that pretty much crushes the idea). Nevertheless, we would still need more (much more) samples to verify this. I really wish we could have more extensive academic samples. The HGDP Pashtuns are all from somewhere in the Kurram Agency, so they neighbor Pashtuns in Khost province. One would hope that more Pashtuns would get interested in genetic genealogy, and get genotyped via 23andMe or the Genographic Project. One would also hope that they eventually send their raw data to open projects like this. As a side note, looking at your picture, you have a interesting Central Asian phenotype that one wouldn't predict going by your genetic results. People probably assume you to be of Hispanic ancestry. In my own case, I've always been confused for a Mexican by both Mexicans and White Americans (although I would be an unusually hirsute Hispanic, but perhaps that is sharing too much information). In Pashtun contexts, people tell me I look Tajik. But, in my case, this is to be expected given my heavy East Asian ancestry according to these Admixture results (11%).
If by East Asian you mean Mongoloid, then you have about 9% Mongoloid ancestry according to these ADMIXTURE results, not 11% (Papuans are not Mongoloids but Australoids). HRP0286 has about 8% Mongoloid ancestry according to these ADMIXTURE results, thus not much different than yours.
As for the phenotype issue, I think most, if not all, of the facial features labeled as "East Asian" or "Mongoloid" in Pashtuns are actually ASI (=Ancestral South Indian) facial features, as those features are also found in South Asian peoples with much less or no Mongoloid ancestry.
HRP0281 is indeed Ghilzai pashtun because he also posted his results on Pashtunforums.
Is that so. It would be nice if HRP0281 verified that.
I could not find any other Pashtuns on 23andMe. The only other Pashtun on my sharing list is a Durrani from Kandahar, and I think HRP0281 is that same individual. I could be wrong. If I am wrong, we may have another Pashtun sending in their raw-data to Zack, and participating in the project. If I am right, HRP0286 has some very unique and interesting results.
Also, I also visited this "Pashtunforums" site. The Ghilzai individual you mentioned was tested on the Genographic Project. He also had some interesting results.
"Also, I also"
I can't believe I made such a basic mistake.
So he is a Durrani.
To get to the answer
We have to focus on my specific tribe - the Mohammadzai branch of the Barakzai.
Hi my fellow Pashtun,
I do not usually get mistaken for Mexican, that photo of me was too old.
Most people think I am an Iranian and even Iranian people make that mistake.
A foreign friend of mine who has seen many Afghans thought I looked Tajik.
I once thought that Pashtuns and Tajiks all looked the same, until I met Pashtuns from the Pakistan border areas.
That changed my perception a bit.
Now I realize that Durrani tribe's people have more Central Asian or West Asian compared to other Afghan Pashtuns.
I think Shahid Afridi is a good example of that type of non-Durrani Pashtun.
Onur, the Amerindian components, as well as the Papuan, are East Eurasian components. The Amerindian is obviously really just some kind of Siberian (unless there was a mass migration of Apaches to South-Central Asia). In my case, the Papuan is not really Australasian ancestry. It is probably just East Asian, but it is being interpreted by the algorithm as Australasian. I assume this because I don't get Australasian on every other calculator I have used (virtually every calculator put out on DIY Dodecad, I have used ), so this is probably the case (but, you can never be sure). Also, East Asian features are not thought to be common among Pashtuns. Although I hate discussions on this topic, I will note that most Pashtuns tend to have rather long and narrow faces.The same goes for the nasal form, which tends to be markedly leptorrhine. So I am not sure where you're coming from regarding the source of East Asian features in Pashtuns being ASI (you got to remember, the concept of "ASI" is an abstraction, although "East" and "West" Eurasians are also abstractions). Also, other South Asian populations do not (consistently) look very East Asian. East Asian features are most intense in eastern India and Bangladesh. Nevertheless, any discussion on this topic (phenotype) is useless. Variation and overlap are the reality on the ground, a reality that terms like "Mongoloid" or "Australoid" fail to adequately capture. I think it is best we leave it at that.
Hi HRP0286. You should really try to get other members of your family genotyped. I myself am attempting this. You can always learn something new. In regards to Shahid Afridi, I can see what you're saying. But I have noticed one thing. Durrani Pashtuns from Helmand look like other Afghan and Pakistani Pashtuns. Do you think there is any specific historical reason for this. People from Helmand tend to have the angularity and high facial relief that is usually supposed to be typical of other Pashtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Hi
Durrani Pashtuns in Helmand don't look like Pashtuns from the Pakistani border areas. I'm sure some do ... maybe you just met some people who looked like that.
Lashkar Gah photos:
http://blogs.dfid.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Lashkar-Gah-Bus-st.jpg
http://www.pajhwok.com/en/affiles/imagecache/lead_l/photo/2011/2/marjah%201%20%28Small%29_0.jpg
In my family there are a few with that appearance, the Shahid Afridi look, also but they aren't the majority. When standing together it makes us look like a mixed race family, it is very interesting.
There is an effort underway in the FTDNA's R1a1 and Subclades Project to identify potential connections between Pashtuns and Arabs. The Project has recently tested a number of Pashtuns for downstream SNPs and expanded STR markers. The effort is being spearheaded by SAUD ABDUL AZIZ SAUDBUSINESS@YAHOO.COM, Group Co-Administrator who has also put in monetary contributions in addition to his time and research. Eg.
Credit $396.00 3/21/2013 SAUD TO MR. Åukasz ÅapiÅ„ski , upgrading Pashtun samples Individual
Very early it was seen that some Pashtun R1a1 showed some similarity to an STR type also seen in Arabia.
Right now they are in the cluster entitled - D3. Z93+ Z94+ CT2124+ Z2122- Z2123-, Central-West Asian
If there are R1a1 Pashtuns that would like further resolution of their R1a1 type, please feel free to contact Mr. Saud Abdul Aziz or any Z93 section admin. http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1a,r1a,r1a/default.aspx
Hi HRP0286,
Looking at the pictures, you are clearly correct. It seems that the people I know are not very representative. I can see West and East Asian tendencies in these Pashtuns. Nevertheless, I do think it is important to note that they don't look markedly different from other Pashtuns. The only real consistent differences are the shape of the eyes, the broader faces, and the lighter skin color. If all Durrani Pashtuns tend to look like this, then they are not really that different from other Pashtuns (as of yet, I have only met Durranis who originated from Helmand, or the Kandahar area).
I completely understand the comment about your family. I also have people in my family who could pass for either Punjabis, Armenians, or Uzbeks. I guess this is what happens when you live at the intersection of South, West, and Central Asia.
HRP0282,
I think the "Papuan" component of Pashtuns is much more likely to be an ASI component, given the facts that the closest component to the "Papuan" component is the "S Indian" component, that Pashtuns have significant ASI ancestry, and that the "Papuan" component is almost equally distant to Caucasoids and Mongoloids.
Unfortunately, many people treat South Asians as darker versions of Caucasoids, which is not the case. South Asians are racial hybrids of Caucasoids and the ASI race, which is closer to the Mongoloid race than to the Caucasoid race. Many South Asians, and not just the eastern ones, have Mongoloid-like features.
Gujaratis have 0% Papuan but Buryat, a Siberian group, and Yi has 1%.
I find it Hard to believe that Gujaratis have less ASI than East Asian people.
"Many South Asians, and not just the eastern ones, have Mongoloid-like features."
You really have not met any South Asians, have you? South Asians obviously have East Eurasian admixture, but few (if any) South Asians going from the Northwest to the Southeast look even slightly East Asian. People from eastern UP, people from Nepal, Biharis, and Bengalis are a different case altogether.
Very pathetic and racist comment from this Onur chap, he think he would certify the people for being accepted as Caucasoid, whereas his own turkish people are treated non-caucasoid in germany where i live at the moment, quite ironic , is'nt it.
Onur,
'Caucasoids' are just a subset of South Asian diversity, pretty much as South Asians are themselves a subset of African diversity. 'Caucasoids' are a component from a South Asian type that arrived in higher latitudes of Eurasia in the upper Paleolithic.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8435317.stm
Kostenki IV has the characteristic nasal notch seen in the Balangodese/Vedda of Lanka.
You really have not met any South Asians, have you? South Asians obviously have East Eurasian admixture, but few (if any) South Asians going from the Northwest to the Southeast look even slightly East Asian. People from eastern UP, people from Nepal, Biharis, and Bengalis are a different case altogether.
I do not want to get into polemics with you, as you seem to have very stereotyped views on racial matters.
"I do not want to get into polemics with you..."
Oh the inhumanity! What will I do with my life now that I can't engage in profound discussion regarding "racial matters" (the most interesting, the relevant topic in the world) with Onur. I will be forever scarred.
Very pathetic and racist comment from this Onur chap, he think he would certify the people for being accepted as Caucasoid, whereas his own turkish people are treated non-caucasoid in germany where i live at the moment, quite ironic , is'nt it.
I am racist for pointing to the high non-Caucasoid ancestry (and much higher than that of Turks to be sure) in South Asians?! Your reaction bespeaks your lack of objectivity and scientific knowledge about racial matters.
The world does not revolve around turkey or turkish people, you should come out of this illusion. I have described what I see on daily basis in Germany where turkish people from turkey are not considered caucasoid. I am from punjab pakistan and most of germans mistake me for a turk here in germany, this is the reality of caucasoid affiliation of turks from turkey.
It is you who brought Turks into the discussion. I do not care what people from the simple folk of any ethnic group think about the racial affiliation of other ethnic groups, including Turks. I do not know how you look, so I cannot comment on how much you look like Turks.
If you are going to discuss racial matters with me, please try to read what I write carefully and be more scientifically-oriented rather than rumor-oriented.
To the pashtun guys here, can you guys tell me the history of some of the pashtun tribes, I find there so much research to be done on these interesting tribes. Pashtuns are a mysterious people found in such a large area
My family sir name is Durrani, though my family has been in Punjab Pakistan for generations, I suspect that a lot of pashtuns probably settled in the Pakistani punjab area over the centuries, there are many people here with pashtun last names, yet they consider themselves Punjabi. I know many of them could be fake, but as for my family we look very fairskinned and Caucasian like pashtuns, and clearly stand out from rest of the Punjabi crowd, though I have personally no idea where and when my ancestors came from the pashtun areas, I would like to find out
Durrani is a huge confederation based in Southern Afghanistan -Kandahar, Oruzgan and Helmand
If you are a descendent then your ancestor likely came during the time of Ahmad Shah Durrani.
Onur,
'Caucasoids' are just a subset of South Asian diversity, pretty much as South Asians are themselves a subset of African diversity. 'Caucasoids' are a component from a South Asian type that arrived in higher latitudes of Eurasia in the upper Paleolithic.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8435317.stm
Kostenki IV has the characteristic nasal notch seen in the Balangodese/Vedda of Lanka.
We do not know where and when the Caucasoid race emerged. There are lots of speculations.
As for South Asians, as I pointed out, modern-day South Asians are hybrids of the Caucasoid race and the ASI race, which is a race closer to Mongoloids than to Caucasoids. Of course, South Asia might have been a racially very different land tens of thousands of years ago. It might have harbored Caucasoids or Proto-Caucasoids and the ASI race in different corners of the subcontinent in an unmixed state and separated by geographic barriers.
Yes there is lot of speculation, but the Kostenki IV is an actual physical ancient find not estimating the past from present composition. Kostenki IV also happens to be mtDNA U2 which as far as I know is almost exclusively found in Europe and South Asia.
That ASI is high in populations that have mongoloid features (and therefore closes) is true, but that looks to be the result, in part, of a recent input into South Asia with Austro-Asiatics.
The genetic impact of Austro-Asiatics in South Asia should not be exaggerated. Their territory of expansion and genetic impact in South Asia is rather limited.
That is my impression too, but it is sufficient to provide a mongoloid pull in the central, eastern, and north-eastern parts of the subcontinent.
There are others who actually believe that the substrate of northern South Asia is Munda. I think they are wrong geopgraphically, but Dr. Witzel and his group at Harvard posit Munda's presence in the North-West:
"strong Austro-Asiatic substrate in the Panjab, and there are some hints which point to Munda influence in the Himalayas (Konow 1905, Witzel 1993, see below) and even in E. Afghanistan (Åšambara, Kamboja) ... language of the Indus people, at least those in the Panjab, must have been Para-Munda or a western form of Austro-Asiatic"
"If Diakonoff's proposal was borne out, the Rgvedic Para-Munda substrate in the Panjab of c. 1500 BCE would represent an early link to Sumerian. Notably, Sumerologists, though without any firm reasons going beyond some vague mythological allusion to more
eastern territories (Dilmun, etc.), think that the Sumerians immigrated from the east, from the Indus area."
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/MT-Substrates.pdf
"So he is a Durrani.
To get to the answer
We have to focus on my specific tribe - the Mohammadzai branch of the Barakzai."
My friend, your results always get more and more intriguing. Are the Mohammadzai an elite/power-holding lineage? If yes, it is likely that many Qizilbash were absorbed/integrated into the lineage after the start of the Durrani empire. The Qizilbash have been a rather powerful minority in Afghanistan's past governments (especially considering their size). You may have substantial ancestry from this population. Endogomy among members of your lineage would preserve the genetic signatures of this ancestry. Nevertheless, this is all just pure speculation on my part. But, I think this is the most parsimonious explanation, and one with some robust historical documentation . Also, the Qizilbash are probably predominantly West Asian, with a small dollop of East Asian (they are a Turkic population, with origins in Azerbaijan (the Caucasus)). I could see your admixture percentages as representaing 60% Pashtun, and 40% of a population with genetic affinities just like that. Whatever may be the case, your results are extremely interesting.
A few of my (Shia) cousins are Qizilbash-descended but I don't see any Qizilbash members on my tree.
Here is detailed information on the Barakzay:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/barakzi-singular-barakzay-an-ethnic-name-common-in-the-entire-eastern-portion-of-iran-and-afghanistan-where-it-is-found
Pedigree of Dost Mohammed Khan
http://books.google.com/books?id=zOY5AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA24
http://books.google.com/books?id=zOY5AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA4
Dost Muhammad Khan was a great leader.
My paternal and maternal ancestors were his brothers, Pir Muhammad Khan and Nawab Asad Khan.
This is great news. You are a paternal line descendant of his brother and therefore have the same Y line.
The family's traditional account says that they have a Jewish origin through Abdal while the historical account for that remote period is obscure. Have you tested your Y line at FTDNA or elsewhere? A high resolution test (111 marker) could easily verify or disprove a connection to eastern Jews such as the Mashhadi, Khurasani, and Herati.
I am a J1 but I don't think it's true, jet a useful legend for political purpose.
My closest relative on 23andme is Georgian.
The true source of Abdal is the Hepthalites.
The Hephthalite or Kushans are actually equated with Jews & Khazars as Huns (Honk or Honni) in Georgian and Armenian texts.
After their expulsion from Israel and Syria one branch supposedly went and settled with the Bun Turks in Zanavi.
"Also at that time came Jews who had escaped from Nebuchadnezzar (Nabugodonosor), who had captured Jerusalem. And they requested a place for worship from the tanuter of Mts'xet'a; and he gave them [an area by] a stream on the Arag river called Zanaw, now called Xerk. Up to this point the language of Iberia was Armenian. But then [the Iberians] started to be changed by the peoples dwelling among them, and there occurred a mixing up of everything, leading to that which is presently called Georgian." http://rbedrosian.com/gc2.htm
"The ancient Georgian historic chronicle, The Conversion of Kartli, is the oldest and only Georgian source concerning the history of the Jewish community in Georgia ...
...the warlike seed, the Honni [Jews], exiled by the Chaldeans, [came to Kartli] and requested the land for tribute from the Lord of the Bun T'urks [suburb of Mtskheta]. And they [Jews] settled in Zanavi. And they possessed it... " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_Jews
This connection, IMO, extends beyond J-1 to include certain branches of R1a1 too. Nevertheless, your J-1 provides a unique opportunity as it is quite rare in Afghanistan.
Very interesting material from Encyclopedia Iranica. From what I gathered, it seems that the Barakzay are an elite group. Just wanted to mention this as an interesting side note, Dost Mohammad Khan's mother was Qizilbash (you probably know this, but if you don't, Dost Mohammad Khan was a Barakzay ruler of Afghanistan). You mention relatives with Qizilbash ancestry. Perhaps, at some point in the past, there could have been substantial gene flow from the Qizilbash into the Barakzay tribe/lineage. After this absorption of Qizilbash, the tribe probably became more endogamous, which is why the signature of this gene flow did not fade with time.
Did you send your raw-data to Dr.McDonald? If so, what did he say?
Qizilbash were a part of Nader Shah's army so they came to Afghanistan in the 1700s and Barak was living during the Timurid dynasty of the 1400-1500s.
My Mcdonald results:
The automated computer results are as follows.
Most likely fit is 33.4% (+- 8.6%) Mideast (various subcontinents)
and 66.6% (+- 8.6%) S. Asia (all Pakistan)
The following are possible population sets and their fractions,most likely at the top
Adygei= 0.343 Pathan= 0.657 or
Adygei= 0.465 Sindhi= 0.535 or
Jewish= 0.228 Pathan= 0.772 or
Turkish= 0.299 Pathan= 0.701
or ...
Poland 0.0548 Georgian 0.2653 Pathan 0.5959 Uygur 0.0840 or
Belorus 0.0554 Georgian 0.2651 Pathan 0.5969 Uygur 0.0826 or
Hungary 0.0660 Georgian 0.2499 Pathan 0.6020 Uygur 0.0821 or
Germany 0.0567 Georgian 0.2594 Pathan 0.5994 Uygur 0.0845 or
Poland 0.0591 Georgian 0.2639 Hazara 0.0762 Pathan 0.6009 or
English 0.0574 Georgian 0.2583 Pathan 0.5993 Uygur 0.0850 or
Belorus 0.0597 Georgian 0.2637 Hazara 0.0748 Pathan 0.6019 or
Romania 0.0849 Georgian 0.2268 Pathan 0.6075 Uygur 0.0808 or
Hungary 0.0711 Georgian 0.2472 Hazara 0.0742 Pathan 0.6075 or
French 0.0641 Georgian 0.2470 Pathan 0.6052 Uygur 0.0837 or
Italian 0.0824 Georgian 0.2190 Pathan 0.6154 Uygur 0.0832 or
Germany 0.0611 Georgian 0.2575 Hazara 0.0765 Pathan 0.6049 or
English 0.0619 Georgian 0.2563 Hazara 0.0770 Pathan 0.6048 or
Spain 0.0712 Georgian 0.2341 Pathan 0.6116 Uygur 0.0831 or
Romania 0.0913 Georgian 0.2224 Hazara 0.0727 Pathan 0.6135 or
French 0.0691 Georgian 0.2441 Hazara 0.0756 Pathan 0.6112 or
Tuscan 0.0979 Georgian 0.2010 Pathan 0.6179 Uygur 0.0831 or
Italian 0.0887 Georgian 0.2140 Hazara 0.0751 Pathan 0.6222
which averages Euro 0.0548 Mideast 0.2653 South Asia 0.6799
This fit gives the map with more dots on it, probably more accurate.
What matters is the green spot on the map.
This is an interesting map spot ... I’ve never seen one there.
What is it supposed to be?
-Doug Mcdonald
http://s602.photobucket.com/user/atesh_hmd/media/HGRawDataBGA1_zps662892c6.png.html%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/atesh_hmd/HGRawDataBGA1_zps662892c6.png
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/atesh_hmd/Hamed_Ghafarshad_Full_20130412123658BGA2_zps6812db60.png
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/atesh_hmd/Hamed_Ghafarshad_Full_20130412123658BGA7_zps74b966d3.png
Here is the correct link for the map:
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/atesh_hmd/HGRawDataBGA1_zps662892c6.png
Your old world average is in Turkmenistan! You have some really cool results. My old world average is located in Zabulistan. The cool thing about your population set fractions is that they fit what I said previously. 60% Pashtun, and 40% percent West Asian with an East Asian bent. Your non-Pashtun ancestry is construed as mostly Georgian, a little European, and some substantial Uygur/Hazara. It fits perfectly with you having ancestry from the Caucasus, but with some minor East Asian ancestry. This looks perfectly in tune (a little too perfectly, in fact) with the idea of the Qizilbash having made a substantial imprint on Barakzay Pashtuns. I thought it was just a possibility, but there seems to be a lot of evidence for it. I am not saying that this is the end of it. I could be absolutely wrong. To be honest, I think I am. Perhaps the Barakzay simply have a lot more cosmopolitan ancestry due to their westerly position, and political prominence. That could also explain your results. Nevertheless, the idea about Qizilbash should not be taken too lightly. It would explain a lot.
It makes sense on the surface but North Caucasus and South Caucasus have little relationship even though they are both listed on Harappa Project as "Caucasian."
If I had Azerbaijani ancestry then I would have some relation to Iranians but McDonald made it clear that I do not.
Anyways, very much doubt I have Qizilbash ancestry because it would have been recorded.
In that case, as I said before, perhaps the Barakzay simply have more cosmopolitan ancestry due to their westerly position, and political prominence. That could also explain why another Durrani from Kandahar has results that are almost identical to my own. Nevertheless, I would like to mention that when I talk about the Qizilbash, I am not suggesting that only your particular family has this ancestry. I am saying that it's a real possibility that most Barakzay have this kind of ancestry, because at some point in the past, there may have been a large infusion of Qizilbash into the tribe. Again, this is all just speculation on my part.
I just read the comment regarding your paternal and maternal relation to Dost Mohammed Khan. It is a given that your family will have very interesting and cosmopolitan ancestry.
Sure, but my ancestry is quite certain to be purely Pashtun from at least the 1700s.
The foreign ancestry must have come during the time of the Safavids or Timurids and more likely my paternal line, J1, because that is rare in Afghanistan.
My maternal line is a quite expected m30d1.
@Parasar The time periods don't align as Khazars came after the Hepthalites who came before the Islamic Expansion era.
The geographical location does match because the Khazars were in Abkhazia but how they would end up in Afghanistan I am not clear about.
"The foreign ancestry must have come during the time of the Safavids or Timurids and more likely my paternal line, J1, because that is rare in Afghanistan.
My maternal line is a quite expected m30d1.
Could not have said it better myself.
I also find it interesting that your maternal haplogroup is a more narrow version of my own. Perhaps M30's are common among Pashtuns.
The timeline is not clear to me either.
The story told is that Nebuchadnezzar exiled the Jews. Some went to Persia and Ghor, others to Khyber north of Mecca, Mecca, and Medina, and still others to Georgia. That something of this nature happened is seen from the spread of Aramaic, with Jewish scribes I think. There was a subsequent displacement due to Alexander's invasion and the fall of Persia which must have brought these Jews in contact with the Indo-Gangetic areas and thus the reappearance of written script in South Asia close in nature to Aramaic.
As far as the Khazar are concerned, they appear to be Hepthalite Kushan who are called variously as White Huns, Hayatila, Abdel, Hephtal some very close in sound to one of the Israeli tribes. They were a very militaristic tribe who mingled with the Turks but remained distinct.
Within R1a1 we are now seeing some lines such as Z2124, Z2122 and Z2123 that may help connect the dots.
The distributioin of Z2123 is fascinating:
http://imageshack.us/a/img46/3056/2123don.jpg
That is my impression too, but it is sufficient to provide a mongoloid pull in the central, eastern, and north-eastern parts of the subcontinent.
There are others who actually believe that the substrate of northern South Asia is Munda. I think they are wrong geopgraphically, but Dr. Witzel and his group at Harvard posit Munda's presence in the North-West:
"strong Austro-Asiatic substrate in the Panjab, and there are some hints which point to Munda influence in the Himalayas (Konow 1905, Witzel 1993, see below) and even in E. Afghanistan (Åšambara, Kamboja) ... language of the Indus people, at least those in the Panjab, must have been Para-Munda or a western form of Austro-Asiatic"
"If Diakonoff's proposal was borne out, the Rgvedic Para-Munda substrate in the Panjab of c. 1500 BCE would represent an early link to Sumerian. Notably, Sumerologists, though without any firm reasons going beyond some vague mythological allusion to more
eastern territories (Dilmun, etc.), think that the Sumerians immigrated from the east, from the Indus area."
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/MT-Substrates.pdf
Razib already explored the orgins of the Austro-Asiatics of South Asia and found them to be intrusive to South Asia. They carry a distinct genetic signature from Southeast Asia that is not found in South Asians in general.
https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/sons-of-the-conquerers-the-story-of-india/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/#.UYoCVqLOuSo
I had seen those posts and some of the underlying evidence. It still does not explain why the oldest material in the Rg Veda has Munda influence but little Dravidian.
Razib also touches on it: "The Munda are a somewhat different case ... Some readers of South Asian origin also point out that in the early Indo-Aryan language there may be more evidence of Munda, than Dravidian, influence."
And this is what he captured tentatively: "Here’s my current very tentative model for how South Asians came to be. At some point after the last Ice Age 10,000 years ago the ANI arrived, and hybridized with the ASI, who are descendants of the older original Out of Africa wave to South Asia. After this, but before the Aryans, the Munda arrived from the northeast, and pushed into lands inhabited by ANI-ASI groups. 4,000-3,000 years ago the Indo-Aryans arrive, and impose themselves as an elite on the ANI-ASI hybrid population, before being assimilated biologically and imparting their language to the Indian majority. I don’t know where Dravidian came from, but perhaps it was the language of the ANI (its existence in fragments all across the swath of the northern Indian subcontinent is suggestive, as well as possible connections to ancient Elamite, the language of Bronze Age southwest Iran). Eventually the Aryanized ANI-ASI marginalized the Munda in northeast India and drove them to the highlands. Finally, the Tibeto-Burmans arrived in the historical period."
Ie
1. perhaps >60000 the ASI
2. perhaps ~10000 the ANI - possibly Dravidian speaking
3. Then the Munda who pushed the ANI-ASI
4. ~4000-3000ybp came the Indo-Aryans who mixed with AN-ASI, and pushed the Munda
5. Then the TB in the past ~2000 years.
That Munda scenario is based purely on speculative linguistics. Genetics does not support it (were the Munda completely driven from much of the northern parts of the Subcontinent without any mixing?).
The genetics are speculative too since we do not have evidence from ancient DNA of the type of folk and their timelines.
What we do know is that there was a S,SE-Asiatic intrusion in the Mehrgarh area and the Mundas correspond best with that intrusion. There was an influx of these people seen in Mehrgarh I (6000-4500bc) that coincides with agriculture and it is the agricultural terms that show a predominant Munda influence.
"they do not reflect peoples who have moved into the region from the west because they do not have strong morphological relationships to known Neolithic populations of West Asia. On the contrary their dental morphology associates them with a distinctively Asian gene pool." Ancient cities of the Indus Valley civilization - Page 38 Jonathan M. Kenoyer - 1998
"contrast strongly with the European dental complex and share several dental features common with the Sundadont pattern of Turner ... The Neolithic people of Mehrgarh may represent the western margin of South-Southeast Asian phenotypic dental pattern known as Sundadont." John Lukacs quoted in Indus age: the beginnings - Page 489 Gregory L. Possehl
"The large number of agricultural words alone (Kuiper 1955) that have no Dravidian explanation indicates that the language of the Indus people cannot have been Dravidian" Witzel, Early Sources for South Asian Substrate Languages, Mother Tongue, October 1999
The pre and post intrusion populations remained much the same which means the intrusion had minimal genetic impact.
There were people living in the Indus valley region for millennia before IVC that look very much like the people still living on the Indus today. Which means this intrusive element was perhaps limited in number as they seem to died out or absorbed by the Indus Valley people, as the current population looks like much like the pre-IVC population.
"several millennia prior to their climactic element of urbanization ... biological continuum of many of their morphometric variables in the modern populations of Punjab and Sind." "One recognizes a biological continuuum of many of their morphological variables in the modern populations of Punjab and Sindh." http://books.google.com/books?id=pmAuAsi4ePIC&pg=PA175
I agree with you on the point that only ancient DNA studies can inform us about how the genetic landscape of South Asia was thousands of years ago. But today Austro-Asiatics show no or almost no impact on the general South Asian genetics (I said almost no, because they may have had some genetic impact on eastern non-Austro-Asiatic South Asians such as Bengalis). We don't know if that was the case thousands of years ago; as I said, only ancient DNA studies can convincingly settle that issue.
Parasar i think you will like to share your conclusions to this scholar for an expert opinion on the related topic-
http://new-indology.blogspot.in/2013/02/indo-iranians-new-perspectives.html
Have a good time.
There's an interesting Ted presentation made by Rajesh Rao suggesting that Dravidian was the language of the Harappan peoples, I find it hard to imagine that there is more influence from Munda than Dravidian on the Indo-Aryan language. However language distribution can be more fluid than migration due to trade etc.
http://www.ted.com/talks/rajesh_rao_computing_a_rosetta_stone_for_the_indus_script.html
As far as the Khazar are concerned, they appear to be Hepthalite Kushan who are called variously as White Huns, Hayatila, Abdel, Hephtal some very close in sound to one of the Israeli tribes. They were a very militaristic tribe who mingled with the Turks but remained distinct.
What is your evidence for the Hephthalite Kushan origin of Khazars?
The Khazars remain an enigma, so much of what I have is based on weak grounds.
1. The Khazars used the term Yabgu for their chief which reminiscent of the same term used by the Kushans (and its Indic form Yavugasa).
2. Dieter Ludwig's dissertation makes a case for Khazar origin from Khosaran.
3. The Ak-Khazar and Leukoi Ounnoi parallel.
4. Masudi calls a kingdom in India Khazar. The Arabic lettering looks identical to that used for the Khazar north of the Caucasus. Kitab Muruj Al-dahab Al-Masudi http://books.google.com/books?id=C8NVAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA389 http://books.google.com/books?id=C8NVAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA310
5. Armenian historians use the term Hun (who they also call Kushan elsewhere) in the space and time as Khazar
History of the Aghuans http://rbedrosian.com/md14.htm
I am glad more and more pashtuns are finally being tested and the results on afghan pashtuns are certainly interesting. This will end the indian nationalistics saying that pashtuns are an indic race. Even this Parasar guy claimed few years ago that pashtuns came from Bihar, because his so called Ashoka or Mauryan empire conquered afghanistan. There are many indians spreading false information about pashtuns on many forums
Pashtuns are genetically South Central Asians, not to be confused with modern-day Central Asians proper, as the latter are significantly Turkic-descended, especially towards the north and towards the east. Thus, Pashtuns are one of the best preservers of the pre-Turkic Central Asian genetics. But as Pashtuns are from the margins of Central Asia, they are probably not a good representative of the pre-Turkic general Central Asian genetics. Ancient DNA samples from Central Asian Saka peoples would probably be much better representatives for that.
^yes south/central asians, but south/central asians are not indians, Pashtuns are related to their neighbors like Kalash, Nuristanis, Pamiri Tajiks etc... not Indians, just because 3-5 punjabis show similarity to them doesn't mean they are a indic race, in fact it is probably the other way around, those certain punjabis are probably influenced by pashtuns or other south/central asians. The indian propoganda against pashtun and other south/central asians is pure BS
also no, Pashtuns are actually more mixed than lets say Pamiris, I think Pamiries are probably the best preserved genetic non turkic/mongol central asian ethnic group
I said "one of the best preservers", not "the best preservers".
What I find interesting is that the Ghilzai individual who tested with the Genographic Project is closest to the Iranian and Pamiri Tajik reference populations. It seems this is typical for Pashtuns tested on the Genographic Project.
@Parasar There was little to no significant Jewish migration into Afghanistan. Khazars are not really Jews, they are a Turkic tribe. Hepthalites were probably more related to the Iranian nomads but had adopted some Turkic elements.
Iranian nomad invasions of Afghanistan lead to the formation of Pashtuns because before that it was Gandhara.
I would agree with little or no significant - numerically. But what if they had a disproportionate impact (elite dominance). After all the country is now called Afghanistan not Gandhara, or Ariana, or Pakta/Paktika as in the past. As per Bellew, when he wrote, there was a distinction, which with the passage of time is no longer there.
"For the last hundred and thirty years, more or less, this dominant position has been held by the Afghan, or, as he is generally styled in reference to his being of the ruling race, the Durrani, and it is from him
that the complex nationality, as well as the country itself,
have received their names Afghan and Afghanistan.The principal nationalities which together compose the inhabitants of Afghanistan, are the Afghan, the Pathan, the Ghilzai, the Tajik, and the Hazarah. There are besides the lesser nationalities of the Char Aymac on the western frontiers
about Herat, the Uzbak on the southern bank of the Oxus, and the Kafir on the southern slopes of Hindu Kush."
"They are simply Afghan or Aoghan, as it is commonly
pronounced, of such or such a clan; or they are Durrani,
a term which only came into use with the rise of the nation
to an independent sovereignty under Ahmad Shah in 1747."
"The Afghans admit that they are Pukhtana the Hindustani form of which is
Pathan but they are careful in insisting on the distinction between Afghan and Pathan (or Pukhtana, the word in use among themselves). In fact, as they say, every Afghan is a Pukhtun (singular of Pukhtana), but every Pukhtun, or Pathan, is not an Afghan. The distinction thus made is a very
proper one, for the two peoples are of different race and origin."
http://archive.org/stream/racesofafghanist015766mbp/racesofafghanist015766mbp_djvu.txt
Doesn't seem very convincing.
Afghan is not a name that they used to refer to themselves, it was used primarily by Persians, Tajiks and Arabs. The root could be Abgan(noble) or Asvakas(Kamboja/Saka).
There is no linguistic connection that would support an elite dominance "Jewish" or "Turkic" Khazar origin of Pashto or Afghan tribe.
The Jewish myth was quite useful when fighting against Hindus and others.
That is indeed a possibility that the story was made up as I have not been able to find any pre-islamic direct evidence from South Asian sources to confirm the Jewish connection except the secondary evidence from Aramaic.
The reason I still think there is a grain of truth is that it goes against interest: "he [Dost Mohhamad Khan] replied that his people had no doubt of that; though they repudiated the idea of being Jews, whom they treat with hereditary contempt."
You can read a summary from Tabaqat-i-Nasiri & other sources described by Andre Wink here, esp pg 95-96:
http://books.google.com/books?id=g2m7_R5P2oAC&pg=PA91
My family tree says I and all other Pashtuns descend from King Saul through Qais Abdur Rashid. The khazars aren't related to the actual Israelites though. So to say we have Jewish ancestry through Khazars, who didn't even migrate into Afghanistan, is silly.
I had a similar discussion with a Jewish friend who thought that Afghans are lost Israelite tribes so I am used to this talking about this issue.
The Khazars themselves claimed to be of the tribe of Togarmah, but perhaps they assumed that genealogy.
Based on the statement of Masudi ( http://books.google.com/books?id=C8NVAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA389 ) and other contemporary writers, many historians have posited a major Khazar influx into India.
The eminent historian D.D. Bhandarkar was a major proponent.
The Khazar theory has even crept into some genetics papers.
Reich et al: "A speculative hypothesisis that
some Gujarati groups descend from the founders of the “Gurjara Pratihara†empire, which is thought to have been founded by Central Asian invaders in the 7th
century A.D. and to have ruled parts of northwest India from the 7-12th centuries. I. Karve noted that endogamous groups with names like “Gurjar†are now
distributed throughout the northwest of the subcontinent, and hypothesized that that they likely trace their names to this invading group"
Lacau et al: "Furthermore, the high frequencies of R1a1a-M198 and the presence of G2c-M377 chromosomes in Pathans might represent phylogenetic signals from Khazars, a common link between Pathans and Ashkenazi groups ... We envision a plausible scenario in which the converted Khazars could have been absorbed by the early Pathans and that R1a1a-M198 drifted to high frequency in Afghanistan, with the Khazars being the common nexus between Ashkenazi Jews and Pathans. In addition, the Jewish traditions (particularly circumcision, a talith prayer shawl, shabbat, praying in the direction of Jerusalem during the Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur and the Magen David symbol in their houses, among several others)2 observed among Pathans from Afghanistan and the presence of haplogroup G2c-M377, a lineage commonly observed among the Ashkenazi Jewish population (~7%),42 are congruent with the above-stated hypothesis."
While the statement in Reich is clearly not justified, even the one made by Lacau cannot stand on the level of M198. The resolution at that level is just not sufficient. On the other hand, Z2124, a downstream marker is showing a potential connection between South Asia and the Khazar lands.
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l625/ft-d/Lukasz/R1a-clades_zps983fc836.jpg
They are saying "Khazar" lands but there was no recorded migration of khazars into Afghanistan. The other people who came from the same area are the Scytho-Samartians and they did invade India and left linguistic impact on Pashto, Munji and Ishkashmi languages.
Also mistaking the Hepthalites for Khazars because Gurjars are Hepthalite remnants.
Just found out HRP0281 is not the Durrani individual. It seems HRP0281 would rather stay anonymous. The Durrani individual is going to send his raw-data to Zack. It will be interesting to see if his results are similar to yours, or to mine and the other Pashtun participant.
The argument is mainly based on those Arab notices and the relationship between Gurjar and Khazar and the frequent confusion of Khazar with Jurz by Arabic transcribers.
The Gurjars were formed right after the Hepthalite invasion which indicates Hepthalite origins.
They were Sun-worshippers just like the Zunbils or Hepthalite descendents of Southern Afghanistan.
The Gurjar Suryavanshi was the Afghan Sarban and the Rajput Rathor is the Afghan Rajor.
Khazars have no documented kingdom, migration or invasion to Afghanistan.
On the other hand, Hepthalites were around for hundreds of years and their migration was well-documented. They were nomads and a significant number of Pashtuns were originally nomads and continue nomadism to this day as the "Kuchis."
But evidence do we have that they were Hephthalites?
The Yetha evidence of Sung Yun is problematic at best because he came to Gandhara in 520AD and says that the Yetha had come in two generations before (ie ~460AD) his visit, put a Lae-lih (Khingila?) in place, and then left. They were not there when he visited. This looks more like a typical Yetha raid than an occupation.
The very reliable Xuanzang visited India and found it flourishing circa 630-650AD and says about "some centuries ago" the Ta-tso (?) attempted to destroy the law of the Buddha in the five Indias. That these were the Yetha, Xuanzang does not mention, but even giving that, and using two for centuries, would put them around 430AD.
We also know that Faxian visited India for the period 399 to 412AD and reported no evidence of any problem from the Yetha.
So at best we are left with window of about 412AD to 450AD for the Hephthalite incursions.
Debating with you is a waste of time, if you want to believe that they were khazars and therefore we are of Jewish descent go ahead.
It not just a matter of debate. These things are really not clear and therefore I gave a lot credence to your own family's tradition - "My family tree says I and all other Pashtuns descend from King Saul through Qais Abdur Rashid." (Personally, I would be honored to have such a lineage!)
I agree though that a lot is just plain junk - such as Jats=Getes, and I would include Khazar=Gurjar too. To clarify, I am not in support or partial to the Khazar theory at all. I was only summarizing the evidence put forth by a number of topnotch historians in support of that theory and how such theories have crept into the realm of genetics. I would probably put Rathor=Rajor in the questionable category too. Rathor is a spoken form of Rashtrakuta.
Nevertheless, we now have tools available to potentially verify or disprove. Especially on the paternal line. You happen to be J-1 which is one of the supposed 'Semitic' lines. One way to resolve is as I recommended - a high resolution 111 marker STR test. We don't often see J-1 Afghan, from a historically important lineage to boot, and it would be a missed opportunity not to test.
A full Y is also available but that option still remains expensive. "Reports ALL your Y chromosome SNP's" and "Reports over 300 Y chromosome STRs" http://fullgenomes.com/