I have added the HarappaWorld Admixture results for HRP0312-HRP0327 to the individual spreadsheet.
Do note that the admixture components do not necessarily represent real ancestral populations. Also, the names I have chosen for the components should be thought of as mnemonics to ease discussion. I chose them based on which populations in my data these components peaked in. They do not tell anything directly about ancestral populations. The best way to look at these admixture results is by comparing individuals and populations. Finally, the standard error estimates on these results can be about 1%. Therefore, it is entirely possible that your 1% exotic admixture result is just noise.
I have also updated the group averages.
I got a participant from the Geno 2.0 Project, HRP0326 an Afghan Pashtun. While I have calculated their HarappaWorld Admixture results, please note that Geno2 has only about 14,000 SNPs in common with HarappaWorld. Thus these results are very noisy.
Interesting, the more afghan pashtun samples we are getting, the more they are differing from the Indian populations
My dad's results are quite surprising. He is HRP0318
Hello anne. Do you know the full background of your father other than him being from Lahore?
I think his mom spoke Multanese
I see. So his mother spoke Multani or what is today referred to as Saraiki. Also, if you are willing to share, do you know anything about his caste/tribal origins? So, if he is Jatt, Arain, Rajput, Gujjar or has one of the titles of Syed, Shaikh, Shah, Malik, Qureshi etc.
Arya samaj thats his religion.
I know a few of my cousins in India were blonde with.green eyes. I thought that was weird. I will go ask about caste etc..
Hi Paul,
Why is it interesting that he's Arya Samaj? Do you think he may have really been some other religion? I know his last name changed when they moved to India but nobody can tell me their real last name.
most hindus have lower caucasian levels, the few ones who have high could possibly have some muslim ancestors, dont forgot that muslims ruled for 1000 years, many muslim armies and rulers had hindu wives
The higher Caucasian is usually found in muslims, it is very well possible that some of your ancestors were muslim, since you are from pakistani punjab
Maybe but they had to move at the partition. So I'm.not sure. They have some Jewish type of custom s.
Interesting. The Arya Samaj is a reform Hindu movement.
@Imran Khan
The Caucasian component can clearly be found in NW Indians in amounts ranging from 8-14% just by looking at the individual and group admixtures on HAP. There is no reason to assume they have Muslim ancestors if they were from the Arya Samaj religion. Not to mention plenty of Sikh and Hindu Punjabis trace their origin to the Pakistani side of the border.
Can I ask you what does father and his family look like? not just their skin colour, but I am talking about their appreances, do they look more Indian or they look more west asian like Iranian or Pashtun?
This will give an idea about his back ground
@Imran khan. my dad does not look Indian. He looks Greek or Italian. Some of my cousins in India have very light hair and green eyes. My dad has very light brown eyes and very light skin. His skin burns from Sun. Mine does not. But one of his brothers is pretty dark.
His dad looked Pashtun maybe....
HRP0326 is Afghan Ghilzai Pashtun. Ghilzai are one of the 2 largest Pashtun confederations. Seems to have interesting results. Perhaps, those historic rumors about Ghilzai having Turkic admixture/origins aren't entirely false. Although, some of his components are probably elevated due to the noise as Zack mentioned.
He's about 13% East Eurasian and has 14.68 of the South Indian component using HAP's linear regression formula. I'm not sure how accurate the forumula is for individuals with less than 20% of the South Indian component. Perhaps, you could chime in on that Zack? Can it be used at all or would a different formula be necessary?
Anyways, the individual seems less West Eurasian than the average Kurram Valley Pashtun from HGDP despite the lowered South Indian score.
South Indian: 15%
Baloch: 32%
Caucasian: 21%
NE Euro: 12%
SE Asian: 4%
Siberian: 6%
NE Asian: 3%
Beringian: 1%
Mediterranean: 2%
SW Asian: 5%
Some of the other interesting results are for HRP0318, the Lahori Punjabi, who seems fairly similar to the Punjabi Jatts except the Caucasian component is more elevated than the NE Euro component and the Baloch component slightly lowered.
South Indian: 27%
Baloch: 37%
Caucasian: 14%
NE Euro: 12%
Siberian: 1%
NE Asian: 3%
Beringian: 1%
SW Asian: 3%
HRP0320, the UP Muslim, has interesting results as well. Could potentially be of upper caste origin and possibly has real MENA-like influence.
South Indian: 28%
Baloch: 35%
Caucasian: 12%
NE Euro: 11%
SE Asian: 1%
Siberian: 3%
NE Asian: 1%
Papuan: 2%
American: 2%
Beringian: 1%
Mediterranean: 2%
SW Asian: 3%
If you look at the Ethnicity spreadsheet (sheet 4), for HRP0320 it says "Pakistani UP Pashtun ancestry". That means this individual is probably a Rohilla Pathan. If so, perhaps some of the "Pathans" of UP are still mostly Pashtun in terms of ancestry, and have had only moderate amounts of admixture with North Indian Muslims. I did not expect that.
@HRP0282
Thanks for pointing that out. I never used the 4th sheet. I think you may be on to something there. Seems like this individual has real Pashtun ancestry and possibly only a few generations back.
Also, this could be applied to HRP0311 is supposed to be UP muslim (Usmani) with Arabic and Yousufzai Pathan ancestry.
HRP0311:
South Indian: 33%
Baloch: 33%
Caucasian: 10%
NE Euro: 9%
SE Asian: 1%
Siberian: 1%
NE Asian: 2%
Papuan: 1%
American: 2%
Beringian: 1%
Mediterranean: 4%
SW Asian: 2%
Same for HRP0306 who is UP Pathan (1/2) + Punjabi (possible Arab ancestry) (1/2).
South Indian: 32%
Baloch: 34%
Caucasian: 12%
NE Euro: 9%
SE Asian: 0%
Siberian: 0%
NE Asian: 1%
Papuan: 2%
American: 2%
Beringian: 1%
Mediterranean: 2%
SW Asian: 3%
Also, that sheet explains the results of HRP0304 who is actually UP/Bengal Indian of Mixed Indian/West Asian Ancestry. The West Asian ancestry is definitely real in this individual.
South Indian: 30%
Baloch: 27%
Caucasian: 17%
NE Euro: 6%
SE Asian: 3%
Siberian: 3%
NE Asian: 2%
Papuan: 1%
American: 1%
Beringian: 1%
Mediterranean: 3%
SW Asian: 5%
San: 1%
E African: 1%
Same for HRP0261 who is a UP Muslim Syed
South Indian: 33%
Baloch: 31%
Caucasian: 13%
NE Euro: 7%
SE Asian: 2%
Siberian: 3%
NE Asian: 2%
Papuan: 1%
American: 1%
Beringian: 2%
Mediterranean: 1%
SW Asian: 3%
Also, sheet 4 points out that HRP0326 is a Ghilzai Pashtun from the Amarkhel tribe. Do you know anything about their origins?
^ the muslims of west UP are the most mixed among all indian muslims, simply because Delhi/West UP area was the seat of many muslim empires including Mughals, Pashtuns, Turkic etc....
Many muslim from UP rather look similar to Pakistani punjabis then to Indians
The most beautiful of bollywood actresses Madhubala was a muslim pathan from Delhi/West UP area
Hi Paul,
The UP Muslim results are very interesting. It seems that cosmopolitan origins are discernible for many of them.
In regards to the Amarkhel, they are a sub-branch of the famous Sulaimankhel tribe. The Sulaimankhel are the largest of the Ghilzai tribes (which itself is the largest Pashtun confederacy in Afghanistan). The Amarkhel themeslves are split between the provinces of Nangarhar and Maidan-Wardak. There are also quite a few members of this Khel in Quetta and Karachi. HRP0326 has very interesting results.This does make the old genealogical legends look far more plausible. Fascinating stuff.
Although I should add that we know nothing about HRP0281's tribal and provincial background. Since the Ghilzai are the largest confederacy in Afghanistan, HRP0281 could also be of Ghilzai origin.
@Paul
HRP0304 UP/Bengal Indian of Mixed Indian/West Asian Ancestry has already mentioned on public forums that his family for most part is not native to India, and that both sets of parental lineages migrated from Iran and Central Asia respectively during the course of the last 400 years. He has ancestral roots in Nishapur, Shiraz and Isfahan Iran mixed with an indigenous base from Varanasi and West Bengal in India. Nishapur in the Razavi Khorasan Province, otherwise known as "little Damascus", has a rich cultural history that attracted men of great stature from all over the Middle East, and still has close relations with the modern day Shia Syed Muslims of India which originally date back to the Golden Age of Islam.
According to HRP0304's own interesting accounts, he is a descendant of the last Qutb Shahi king Tana Shah, as his paternal side claims direct male ancestral descent from the Black Sheep Turkomen of Central Asia, so the Y-DNA R1b in this individual is not the least surprising.
The Qutb Shahi dynasty was a Turkmen Turkic dynasty of Kara Koyunlu (Black Sheep Turkomen origin) that embraced Persianate culture and Shia Islam. Its members were collectively called the Qutub Shahis and were the ruling family of the kingdom of Golkonda/Hyderabad in modern-day Andhra Pradesh, India between 1375–1468. Interestingly, the dynasty had roots in the Shia Oghuz Turkic tribal federation that had previously maintained political control over much of present-day Armenia, and parts of Turkey, Iran and Azerbaijan.
Sultan Quli Qutub Shah, who was the founder of the royal dynasty was an Iranian from Hamadan who had migrated to Delhi, and later moved to south of the Deccan to serve the Bahmani Sultan there. The equally famous Asaf Jahi dynasty that was of Turkic origin from the area around Samarkand in Uzbekistan, were another one of great importance whose descendant Nizams ruled over the Hyderabad State territories until the IAF forcefully overthrew the Nizam and annexed the state into the Indian Union around the time of Indian Independence.
After the partition, Urdu-speaking Hyderabadi families of such a noble and charismatic lineage moved to the Karachi center of Pakistan in great numbers, forming the Urdu-speaking Hyderabadi Muslim element of the Muhajirs community.
HRP0304's claim looks in line with his R1b - likely M73.
^ there were lots of mixed muslim families living in north india before the partition, most of them moved to Pakistan in 1947. Even cricketer Imran Khan's family is muhajir of pathan background.
Imran khan´s maternal family is barki who migrated from jalandhar indian punjab where they had been residing since the time of ibrahim lodhi that is 1400´s onwards. Barki´s however are not pashtuns, they are a separate ethnic group that originate in a place called barki in logar province of afghanistan, almost all the the barkis now speak dari as their mother tongue and are lumped with tajiks in afghanistan. But historically barkis spoke their own unique languae "ormuri" that is still spoken by barkis living in kannigaram area of south waziristan. ormuri is considered an east iranic language with some dardic linguistic admixture.
Interesting. I recall reading the Barakis were descendants of Arabs.
Imran Khan hails from a Niazi Pashtun family with a long history in Punjab. Many Niazi Pashtuns have been living in Punjab for a long time. He is not a Muhajir.
^ his mom side is
I now have permission from my friend HRP0326 to elaborate on his broader family background. HRP0326 is 25% Amarkhel Ghilzai (paternal grandfather, so this is his tribe), 25% Kharoti Ghilzai, 12.5% Tarakhel Ghilzai, 12.5% Mohammadzai Durrani, 12.5% Alekozai Durrani, and 12.5% Jaghuri Hazara (maternal great grandmother). So he is 62.5% Ghilzai Pashtun, 25% Durrani Pashtun, and 12.5% Hazara.
Thank you HRP0282. The 12.5% Hazara ancestry probably explains most of his East Eurasian ancestry and potentially has to do with his lowered Baloch and South Indian components.
@anne
I just thought it was interesting a Pakistani Punjabi was from the Arya Samaj movement.
@Paul
The founding father of the Arya Samaj Hindu Reforms movement was none other than Dayananda Saraswati who was a Gujarati Brahmin from modern-day Rajkot, however his controversial message of "going back to [core] Vedas", more in line with that of his contemporary Punjabi Brahmin friend Virajanand Dandeesha, and was more popular among NW Hindus than among his very own residents of Gujarat, simply because of the wider practice of Sufi syncretism making the ideas more palatable to that region.
The Arya Samaj movement held popularity over much of Greater Punjab. Mahatama Hansraj, from the Hoshiarpur district of Punjab, was a great admirer of Swami Dayanand, which lead him to spread the message far and wide, and in 1886 co-found the Dayanand Anglo-Vedic Schools System (DAV) in Lahore, so the Arya Samaj movement has very early roots in Pakistan. In fact, Swami Dayanand had always praised the work of the Sikh Gurus in his Lahore sermons, and this earned him many Sikh admirers including Bhai Jawahir Singh who came to be the secretary of the Lahore Arya Samaj, and later Shaheed Bhagat Singh, one of the greatest revolutionaries of the Indian independence movement.
http://www.daveduboard.org/
Sir Gokul Chand Narang (1878-1969), a leading figure of then Lahore was one such famous devotee born into a middle-class Khatri family of modest means lucky enough to have been educated there, even though he was most famous for being a brilliant author for novel works such as his "Transformation of Sikhism" and "Message of the Vedas and Transition of Sikhism into a Political Organisation".
Vijay Kumar Chopra who is CEO of the Punjab Kesari news organisation is another famous Khatri of Arya Samaji persuasion, who was born in Lahore but forced to move to Jalandhar post-partition.
The establishment attracted large numbers of Lahoris of modest means backgrounds on the basis of (DAV) education proven to be successful in shaping the core values of the typical middle-class Lahoris, but was also powerful enough to attract the attention of scions from distinguished Khatri families, such as Rai Bahadur Mukund Lal Puri.
From this it sounds like this movement wanted to go back to the original vedic religion, thus name (arya). Hinduism has been mixed as it moved in to the Dravidian heartland of India, thats why even the hindu genetics changed more in to ASI rather than ANI, I think original hindus or vedic people who lived in pakistan, must have been similar to people like kalash or other dardic people, who clearly have European features. Anne's father might be the very few remaining hindus like that
My dad's religion is strange in that there are many similarities to Judaism (unless there may be some type of roots going back). They cannot enter places of worship or have idols etc.. other things too. I wish I knew what his real last name was. It annoys me. Nobody knows. I have even called India to find out.
@Anne
I am personally not aware of the Arya Samaj Hindu Reform movement being especially more spiritually concerned with the Judaism faction of Abrahamic monotheism, other than Swami Dayanand's strong renunciation of India's superstition, ignorance and blind faith, and his condemnation of idolatry and self-serving ritualistic worship such as bathing in the Ganges river.
The Satyarth Prakash, central to the tenet of the faith, shows that he did take some source of inspiration from Judaism, as well as Islam, Christianity, Sikhism, Buddhism and Jainism, as is rather obvious from his critical analyses of the various world faiths. However, the abolition of idolatry is not one of his which was factually taken straight out of context of Judaism, other than the fact that this theme is central to the Abrahamic faiths and that this idea was strongly propagated by early Judaism.
One could say that indeed many spiritual Gurus were inspired by the champions of Jewish Reform in the early 1800s, so in that sense Swami Dayanand's Arya Samaj Hindu Reforms accepted Western scholarly methods of reform that allowed for a rational critique of the sacred texts. In that sense, he and his contemporaries were more like the Indian parallel to the works of Abraham Geiger and Leopold Zunz who happened to be one of the greatest early proponents of secular Jewish scholarship that sought to rationalize and invigorate rabbinic and contemporary Talmudism.
@sky, He is also circumcized too. Which is weird.
@Anne
That is Interesting.
The Arya Samaj missionary recruitment drive was politically active at its greatest extent in North India including so far as Kashmir, where Brahmin orthodoxy was rarely ever challenged by lower-caste militancy such as that seen in Tamil Nadu. Thus, the concept of shuddhi karan ('purification') ceremony made it possible for missionaries to reconvert entire Hindu castes who had previously accepted Islam on the lure of extended land grants by Muslim kings to once again reclaim their lost Hindu "upper-caste" status. This law extended exactly to those Hindus who had defiled their spiritual dharma through taking cooked food from Muslims, crossed the seas, or performed circumcision.
Among the groups that were targeted for central de-Islamization in order to boost their numbers were those who had a fluid peripheral self-identity as Muslims, having retained much of their previous Hindu beliefs and social customs, such as the Cheeta-Merat Chauhan rajputs, Malkanas, mula Jats, Bishnois and Jodhpur bhangis. Of course, socially dominant and powerful Rajputs were especially targeted and lured to the other side with the political support of the Kshatriya Upakarini Sabha [Kshatriya Upliftment Society], who passed the Allahabad resolution seeking to accept Muslim Rajputs back into the fold of the Hindu faith.
The Muslim reaction to the Arya Samaj proselytisation resulted in a counter-proselytisation drive to convert thousands of Hindus to Islam reconstructed around a "Pan-Indian Muslim" nationalism promoted by the Deobandi ‘alim of the Jami’at-ul Ulama-i-Hind and Tablighi Jamaat, among whom Khwaja Hassan Nizami, a leading Delhi-based Sufi was most vocal. Overall, the Tabligh and Shuddhi missionary movements were at politically competitive odds but became especially more concerned with swelling their numbers as time progressed.
In light of the historical narrative, a recent potential conversion to Islam within the family - perhaps as recent as the time of Partition - is something you should take worth into consideration. That, and the fact that you mention you and your family have no recollection about the surname of your father as he had changed it after moving to India, is a strong suspect case for him having recently converted to the Arya Samaj faith from a potentially Muslim origin background.
@ sky That's very interesting. But I highly doubt he was muslim because then why would they have left Lahore? They had a lot of property there. They would have likely stayed. But I agree something odd has occured.
Z93+ Z94+ Z2124+ Z2122- Z2123-
148421 Aziz Khan, Utter Pardesh, Rampur, India
184336 Saud Abdul Aziz, Qatar
239548 Pashtun tribe (Bahlolkhel), Afghanistan
167393 United Arab Emirates
239546 Pashtun Tribe (Safi) , Afghanistan
N49878 Pashtun (Amarkhel), Afghanistan
186174 Pashtun tribe, Pakistan
239543 Pashtun tribe (Gigyani), Afghanistan
273822 Saudi Arabia
239542 Pashtun tribe (Gigyani)
This group which is a mix of Pashtuns and Arabs with Z2124+ Z2122- Z2123- shows characteristic repeats at:
DYS447=23, Y-GATA-H4=12, CDY=31-36, DYS537=11, DYS446=13
Any reason why the DIY Harappa is giving a different result from the official result? Not doubting the result.. Just curious. The DIY result was 33% South Indian, 35% Baloch, 8% Caucasian, 12.4% NE European, 1% SE Asian, 2% Siberian, 3% NE Asian, 1% Papuan, 1% Amerindian, 1% Beringian and 2% Mediterranean.
Also was not getting any Pygmy. Granted that is just noise. I guess part of the NE European was actually NE Asian.
^ that's actually true, the name of these components can be confusing, the northern euro component doesn't necessarily mean it belongs to Europe or came from there. Just like the Baloch component is actually west asian and not Baloch.
Essentially these components are a mix of many components, I also strongly believe that NE component has other components in it, because the amount of Northern Euro found in south asia is surprising
I was only talking about my specific case, where the DIY Harappa program has me at > 12 percent NE European, whereas the official result has me at 11 percent. Also, my North Asian went up from 3 to 4.
The DIY result is in general agreement with the official result, but there are still slight differences. I was just wondering why that is. I ran the DIY program only once.
There can be about 1% difference in the results of DIY and my own runs due to various reasons. That is one reason why I say that 1% should be considered noise.
That makes sense. Thank you Zack for the response. Yes, the difference was plus/minus one percent.
Zack, can you tell us what are these components exactly? for example what is northern euro and what are the origins of this component? is it just one component or many components together
@John
Zack as mentioned what the components represent in each of his HarappaWorld Admixture updates.
This is what he has stated:
"Do note that the admixture components do not necessarily represent real ancestral populations. Also, the names I have chosen for the components should be thought of as mnemonics to ease discussion. I chose them based on which populations in my data these components peaked in."
The North Eastern Euro component peaks in:
1. Finnish (80%)
2. Lithuanians (72%)
3. Belarusians (64%)
3. Russians (64%)
4. Ukrainians
There aren't any Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Estonian, Latvian, Polish, etc. samples though. I am sure it would be very high in those populations as well.
Sorry, for Ukrainians, it should say 58%.
^ it is true the it may peak in those countries, but the origins are probably different, for example Baloch component peaks in Balochistan, but the origin is most probably the Anatolia/Turkey region. Same way I think the north euro origins is probably in central asia, because it is even found in low caste indians to some degree, this means that all indian populations got the north euro component, through the waves of central Asian invasions for the last 3000 years
Did you not read what Zack mentioned several times? These admixture components do not necessarily represent real ancestral populations. All you're doing is speculating without any basis for it. It is true that some people have suggested that the Baloch component might have originated in Eastern Anatolia from Neolithic farmers but I have not heard anything about the North Eastern Euro component originating in the Central Asian steppes. However, it is possible that it may have come from Indo-Aryan and Scythian migrations and assimilation rather than "invasions."
Also, what "low caste" populations show more than trace amounts of the NE Euro component (i.e. more than 2%)?
John, north euro is a very old component because you are right, it is found in most people in south asia. You have to realize that much of the invasions from central asia or afghanistan in the last 1000 years, have been muslim invasions or migrations, so muslim south asian genetics are a bit different from their hindu counter parts, it is clear that they have higher Caucasian level in them, I am assuming large part of this component arrived recently, probably with in the last 1000 years of muslim migrations. It is clear from UP muslims samples and Muslim Gujrati samples, that they are more ( in some cases much more) west asian then hindus. The northern Euro level is generally the same in different religious back grounds. The northern euro is clearly so old that it doesn't reflect in the physical appearance of indians, despite some groups having 12 to 18% of that component
with reference to the following comment and post: http://www.harappadna.org/2013/03/harappaworld-hrp0273-hrp0283/#comment-28588
http://www.harappadna.org/2013/08/bengalis/
HRP0317 and HRP0321 (unrelated to each other) are both from the north east of Bangladesh, and both have much higher NE Asian components than the other Bengalis. Since none of the other Bengali participants are from that region of the country, it could be characteristic of that region, and not an outlier.